Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/26/1995 09:35 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
  SENATE BILL NO. 77                                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
       An  Act relating to  intensive management of identified                 
       big game prey populations.                                              
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford  directed that SB  77 be brought  on for                 
  discussion.  Senator Sharp, sponsor of the legislation, said                 
  that the bill contains cleanup provisions for last year's SB
  77.  New legislation was introduced because several factions                 
  are  having  difficulty  understanding  the  mandate of  the                 
  previous  legislation.    He then  commenced  the  following                 
  sectional review:                                                            
                                                                               
  Sec. 1.   Contains findings already set forth in statute.                    
                                                                               
  Sec. 2.   Adds  item (4)  at  page 2,  and  states that  the                 
  Commissioner                                                                 
            shall  cooperate  with  and assist  the  board  of                 
            fisheries and  the board of  game by  implementing                 
            regulations  requested  by  either  board.    This                 
            provision  was  added  because  of  recent   court                 
            decisions ruling that the Commissioner cannot void                 
            quotas  set by  the  board.    It thus  places  in                 
            statute the recent court ruling.                                   
                                                                               
  Sec. 3.   Removes old language mandating that state fish and                 
  game                                                                         
            divisions  cooperate with  and assist  the federal                 
            government  in  enforcement  of  federal fish  and                 
            wildlife laws and  regulations.  At this  point in                 
            time,  that  mandate  is  onerous.   New  language                 
            mandates that  the department  cooperate with  the                 
            state board of fisheries and board of game.                        
                                                                               
  Sec. 4.   Deletes the Commissioner's option  of establishing                 
  a                                                                            
            division  of  game within  the  Dept. of  Fish and                 
            Game.                                                              
                                                                               
  Sec. 5.   States that the division shall  be the division of                 
  game                                                                         
            and sets  forth the duties.   This returns  to the                 
            status quo  prior to six  or seven years  ago when                 
            nomenclature for the division  was changed to  the                 
            division of wildlife conservation.                                 
                                                                               
  Sec. 6.   Clarifies  language  adopted  by   the  Eighteenth                 
  Legislature.        Department    personnel    are    having                 
                      difficulty   understanding    what   the                 
                      statute says.  It addresses the point at                 
                      which   depletion   is   calculated  and                 
                      establishes the  benchmark as  "historic                 
                      high  levels."    Anything   below  that                 
                      represents depletion.                                    
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Sec. 7.   Clarifies  that  intensive  management   does  not                 
  include                                                                      
            management of  people.  The department  appears to                 
  have a         difficult time with that  concept.  Intensive                 
                 management refers to management of game.                      
                                                                               
  Sec. 8.   Adds  paragraphs  relating to  harvestable surplus                 
  and                                                                          
            defines   the  meaning.     Senator   Sharp  noted                 
            difficulties at recent board  meetings in matching                 
            individual  personal  philosophies  with what  the                 
            statutes  say.   Subsection (4)  defines the  term                 
            "high level  of human  harvest"  to a  quantifying                 
            element   (1/3    or   more)   that    is   easily                 
            understandable.                                                    
                                                                               
  Sec. 9.   Adds a  new section which  strengthens legislative                 
  intent                                                                       
            in statutes by establish  a quantitative target to                 
            better  focus management goals at the 50/50 level.                 
            That is the high level.  Nothing  mandates that it                 
            be achieved.   It says  that once parameters  "get                 
            down to a  third of the harvestable  surplus taken                 
            by   human   harvest,    they   should    consider                 
            implementing intensive management,  if it  appears                 
            feasible and achievable by scientific studies, and                 
            try to work up toward the 50/50 replacement."  The                 
            allocation at this time  is 87/3.  That is  out of                 
            balance "between  four  legged  critters  and  two                 
            legged critters."  That has resulted from years of                 
            passive management and no  intensive management to                 
            control the element currently taking the 87%.                      
                                                                               
  At the December meeting, the  assistant attorney general had                 
  no problem understanding  and articulating what previous  SB
  77  meant.    The  issue  is  still  not  understandable  to                 
  department personnel.    Personnel should  move  forward  to                 
  aggressively  manage  game  as   outlined  by  the  attorney                 
  general's recommendation.                                                    
                                                                               
  Senator  Sharp  stressed that  the  resource belongs  to the                 
  people of  Alaska.   It is  a valuable  resource if  managed                 
  correctly.  An abundance  creates greater accessibility  and                 
  availability to utilize the resource.                                        
                                                                               
  Senator Randy Phillips referenced the  last two sentences of                 
  the  legislation.    They  indicate  that  in  instances  of                 
  disagreement between  the commissioner  and  the board,  the                 
  decision of the governor  is final.  He then  commented that                 
  since the commissioner is appointed by the governor, the two                 
  are likely to be  of the same opinion.   Co-chairman Halford                 
  advised  that   the  governor  is  ultimately   in  control.                 
  Language in the bill places the authority and responsibility                 
  "clearly where  it really  is .  . .  ."   Senator  Phillips                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  voiced  his belief that the  final decision should rest with                 
  the  board  of  game  since  that  entity  is  charged  with                 
  responsibility  for   managing  the  resource.     Decisions                 
  concerning the resource should be based on data rather  than                 
  politics.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Senator  Rieger  referenced  the  chart  indicating  current                 
  harvest  levels of  87/3,  in terms  of  predator and  human                 
  takings.    Language  within the  bill  speaks  to one-third                 
  harvest  by humans--a ten fold  increase in human harvest of                 
  game.  He then asked if  that number should realistically be                 
  set in statute.  Senator Sharp referenced escape hatches set                 
  forth in Sec. 6 and noted,  specific, avoidance in all areas                 
  North  of  the  Yukon  River.    Senator  Rieger  questioned                 
  whether, because of the radical change, the board would rely                 
  on escape provisions,  and management would not  achieve the                 
  goals  of the  legislation.   He  suggested a  more moderate                 
  enhancement of human harvest might be more easily triggered.                 
  Senator Sharp  advised that  on the  vast majority of  state                 
  land where  the law will  be applicable, where  one-third or                 
  less harvest of the harvestable surplus is  taken by humans,                 
  the  department   must  evaluate  the  situation.    Further                 
  discussion  of   effective  management   of  certain   areas                 
  followed.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Senator  Zharoff  asked  if  the  department  had  developed                 
  regulations   and   implemented  last   year's  legislation.                 
  Senator  Sharp  indicated   that  the   board  commenced   a                 
  familiarization   review   last   November   and   December.                 
  Extensive further discussion  was had at the  March meeting,                 
  and implementation  of intensive  management was  designated                 
  for two  areas where residents have been concerned about low                 
  population levels.                                                           
                                                                               
  Discussion  of  the  term  "harvestable  surplus"   followed                 
  between Senator Zharoff and Senator Sharp.                                   
                                                                               
  Senator Zharoff questioned the  advisability of managing via                 
  legislation, indicating that it removes much flexibility for                 
  making  mid-season  adjustments,  etc.   He  suggested  that                 
  ability to correct problems as the season progresses is much                 
  better under the current system.   Ability to pull the board                 
  together to make emergency decisions,  if necessary, will be                 
  difficult to attain.                                                         
                                                                               
  Senator  Sharp  attested  to  difficulties  associated  with                 
  attempts to implement predator control programs.  He further                 
  suggested   that  Senator   Zharoff  was   viewing  wildlife                 
  management from the  viewpoint of  commercial fishing  which                 
  has  been  "very  successful  in  managing  for  abundance."                 
  Management  of game has  been dismal.   It  is time  for the                 
  state  to  either save  its money  and  let nature  take her                 
  course or commence  game management for abundance.   Senator                 
  Zharoff advised that  every time  the department develops  a                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  predator control  program, the  methods are not  acceptable,                 
  and the program draws both in-state and national opposition.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger  directed attention to  page 2, line  30, and                 
  MOVED to change "has  occurred" to "exists."  He  noted that                 
  "has occurred" references  something that may have  occurred                 
  in the past  but may  no longer exist.   "Exists"  indicates                 
  that  that  is  the  situation  at  the time  the  board  is                 
  considering  depletion from  historic levels.   The  sponsor                 
  said he had no problem with the change.  No objection having                 
  been raised, the AMENDMENT was ADOPTED.                                      
                                                                               
  GERON BRUCE, Legislative  Liaison, Alaska Dept. of  Fish and                 
  Game, came before  committee.  He  attested to need for  in-                 
  season  flexibility  compared  to a  pre-season  goal.   The                 
  department is concerned by  definitions which place specific                 
  numerical goals in statute.  That reduces department ability                 
  to respond to variations.                                                    
                                                                               
  Referencing   prior   comparison   of   commercial   fishery                 
  management with that  of game, Mr.  Bruce stressed that  the                 
  success of fishery  management has hinged on  flexibility to                 
  make   in-season  adjustments   based  on   observations  of                 
  abundance and other factors  as they occur.   That contrasts                 
  with  the  federal  system which  set  pre-season  goals and                 
  locked  managers  into those  goals  regardless of  what was                 
  actually observed in  season.  The  more flexible route  has                 
  been the approach taken since statehood in management of all                 
  state fisheries.  That has produced tremendous success.                      
                                                                               
  Speaking  to allocations,  Mr.  Bruce reminded  members that                 
  even in times of great  fishery abundance, there are "raging                 
  fisheries allocation conflicts."   That highlights  the fact                 
  that the state cannot achieve a  level of production in fish                 
  and  wildlife  that  will  eliminate  or  reduce  allocation                 
  conflicts.  There  will be disputes among  individuals about                 
  what is the highest and best use of resources.                               
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford pointed out that  there is no commercial                 
  harvest of game.  That is a major component.  As use of game                 
  became an  issue across the  nation, market hunting  was the                 
  first thing to go.   There is thus a  significant difference                 
  between fish and game resources.  Conflicts will continue to                 
  exist.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger  voiced his understanding that  under amended                 
  language within the bill  a reduction in stock of  a certain                 
  game  triggers  intensive management.    Once  historic high                 
  levels are again achieved, the state  can lift itself out of                 
  intensive management.  It does not have to go all the way to                 
  the one-third human harvest level.   The numerical quota may                 
  never be fully achieved.                                                     
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Mr.  Bruce   voiced  department  concern  that  figures  for                 
  historic  high  yields reflect  numbers  from a  time during                 
  which  the  department  does  not  have  the same  level  of                 
  confidence  as it  does for current  numbers.   Those levels                 
  were achieved after extensive predator control involving the                 
  use  of  poison.   It  may  be difficult  to  re-create that                 
  effort.    Mr.  Bruce  advised  of  department  support  for                 
  predator control  and attempts  to conduct predator  control                 
  where  prey populations were  in "the predator  pit."  Those                 
  efforts   met   with   "tremendous   opposition"  and   were                 
  subsequently discontinued.  The department remains committed                 
  to predator control  and recognizes  that it is  one of  the                 
  valid tools  for use in wildlife management.   During recent                 
  meetings, the board  of game identified 35,000  square miles                 
  in  the  interior   in  which  predator  control   would  be                 
  appropriate.  These are  areas of major human  harvest along                 
  the roadside where major problems exist.  Mr. Bruce stressed                 
  that  members keep in mind the state's population growth and                 
  how  it  has  impacted  hunting opportunities,  particularly                 
  along the road system.                                                       
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford noted  that the  most effective form  of                 
  wolf control is pack elimination.  That involves helicopters                 
  and biologists and  elimination of the entire  pack so there                 
  are  no  remaining  reproducing  pairs.   That  approach  is                 
  totally unacceptable to both the environmental community and                 
  "all of  our friends with Super Cubs who  want to go out and                 
  wolf  hunt."    They  cannot  stand  the  thought  of  state                 
  employees participating in predator control "when they can't                 
  do it."  The department is thus stuck with alternatives that                 
  do  not  work  very  well.    Senator  Sharp  concurred that                 
  predator control is not effective when  the size of the pack                 
  is reduced  rather than eliminated.   The pack  is generally                 
  back  to  full or  greater  strength within  three  years or                 
  fragmentation has occurred and several packs have formed.                    
                                                                               
  Senator Sharp referenced earlier comparison of management of                 
  the commercial fishery to  that of game.  He  suggested that                 
  it is much easier  to keep people happy when  management has                 
  produced an  abundance rather than when there  is nothing to                 
  allocate.   Co-chairman Halford  noted that  the reverse  is                 
  true for other states that  are overpopulated but where game                 
  is managed for maximum  production.  He said that  the state                 
  of  Pennsylvania provides more pounds of  big game for human                 
  harvest than Alaska.                                                         
                                                                               
  Senator Sharp spoke to need to zero the fiscal note for  the                 
  bill,  saying  that   there  is  sufficient  money   in  the                 
  department's $900.0  budget to cover the cost.   Geron Bruce                 
  asked that the  note not be  eliminated.  He explained  that                 
  the purpose of the note is to identify costs associated with                 
  the new program  and new initiative.   If the note  does not                 
  accompany  the bill, the only way  the department could move                 
  ahead  with the program  would be to  discontinue some other                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  function and reprogram the funds.                                            
                                                                               
  End:      SFC-95, #57, Side 1                                                
  Begin:    SFC-95, #59, Side 1                                                
                                                                               
  In  further  discussion of  the  fiscal note,  Senator Sharp                 
  advised that he would not delete the negligible note at this                 
  time.  He stressed need to ensure that the note does not set                 
  a  pattern  for future  budget  additions until  results are                 
  known.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Senator Rieger asked if the underlying issue behind the bill                 
  is  that  the department  has  utilized bag  limits, harvest                 
  seasons, and  human consumption limits as the method of game                 
  management to  the exclusion of  management forms.   He then                 
  asked  if  the  bill could  be  simplified  to require  that                 
  management of a game stock must  not reduce human harvest by                 
  a greater percentage than the reduction of predator harvest.                 
  All consumptive uses other than natural causes would thus be                 
  on  equal  ground  and share  in  the  burden.   That  would                 
  eliminate   discriminatory   treatment   of  one   form   of                 
  consumption over another.  Senator Sharp said he would  have                 
  no problem with  that approach were  the human harvest at  a                 
  recognizable point.  Since  human harvest is only 2.5  or 3%                 
  and other takings  total 87%, there  is no equity.   Passive                 
  management  over the  last  twenty years  has resulted  in a                 
  reallocation of  resources away  from  humans to  predators.                 
  Without predator control, that is what happens.  The Senator                 
  questioned who game resources are being managed for.                         
                                                                               
  Discussion followed  between Senator Phillips and  Mr. Bruce                 
  regarding the transplant of Canadian wolves into Yellowstone                 
  National Park.  Mr. Bruce  advised that while Alaska offered                 
  to  provide  wolves for  the transplant,  the U.S.  Fish and                 
  Wildlife service wanted stock that was genetically closer to                 
  what  was  native to  the  area.   The  department  does not                 
  believe  there is a  significant difference between Canadian                 
  and Alaskan wolves.   The offer to  provide transplant stock                 
  remains  open.     Senator  Sharp   noted  that   department                 
  biologists  are acknowledged  worldwide as  experts on  what                 
  should be done  to control wolves.   Of the 35 or  36 wolves                 
  captured  in British  Columbia, 31  or 32  were captured  by                 
  Alaskan biologists.                                                          
                                                                               
  In response to  a question  from Senator Phillips  regarding                 
  the possibility of  transplants to  other states, Mr.  Bruce                 
  noted that as attractive as export is, it is not a realistic                 
  option in achieving  a balance  between predators and  prey.                 
  It will not solve the existing problem.                                      
                                                                               
  Senator  Sharp  MOVED for  passage  of  CSSB 77  (Fin)  with                 
  individual recommendations and the accompanying $10.0 fiscal                 
  note.  Senator Zharoff OBJECTED.  CSSB 77 (Fin) was REPORTED                 
  OUT  of  committee on  a show  of  hands evidencing  five in                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  support of passage,  one no vote,  and one abstention.   The                 
  $10.0  fiscal  note   from  the  Dept.  of   Fish  and  Game                 
  accompanied the  bill.   Co-chairmen Halford  and Frank  and                 
  Senators Donley and Sharp signed the committee report with a                 
  "do pass"  recommendation.   Senators Phillips,  Rieger, and                 
  Zharoff signed "no recommendation."                                          
                                                                               

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